God’s Secret Life & Movies

Imagine this scenario:

A 17 year-old girl discovers that years ago her father had been a terrible criminal.  The girl is horribly confused because her father has been nothing but loving, nurturing and a great role model for her.  So now she has the psychological dilemma of having two drastically different fathers: the one she personally experiences and the one she has only only heard of or read about.

This cognitive dissonance dilemma can be found in many movies and novels: a child [or adult] must decide what to do with the secret life of her father [or a loved one]. This literary trope usually ends in two main solutions:  (A) the child rejects her father [example 1] or (B) the child accepts her father [examples 2-6].  Below I list some of the classic responses with a name and a brief explanation. The parallels to Christianity should be clear by now, so I also offer examples of Christians [“Who“] who may take this position as they learn about Yahweh – the iron-age, tribal god of the Hebrew scriptures.  Finally, with help from commentors, I will offer examples of movies illustrating the type of response (warning! spoilers). Thanx to commentors.

0. Rejects the Father: She rejects the father with great pain and strong emotion (sad, angry…)

  • Who: Atheists, Those moving to another faith
  • Golden Compass (2007): Lyra discover that the enemy, Mrs. Coulter, is her mother.

1. Ignore the Evidence: She just ignores the evidence (or never really listened/read).

  •  WhoMany cultural Christians
  • The Godfather (1972): Kay asks Michael (her husband) if he killed Carlo, Michael denies it, Kay is satisfied with the answer despite all the evidence to the contrary.

2. Justifies the Father: She feels the evidence is true but feels her father must have justifiable reasons for his actions.

  • WhoMost conservative Christians
  • Hot Fuzz (2007): Sgt. Butterman finds out his father is a serial killer, he tries to justify him.
  • Let The Right One In (2008): Oskar realizes Eli is a vampire but accepts that she needs to kill in order to live.

3. Feels the Father has Changed:  She feels the evidence is true but trusts that her father has repented. (See how Yahweh repented after the flood.)

  • Who: Some “Dispensational Christians
  • Old School (2003): Marissa knows her husband is a drunk but pretends he has changed (for the majority of the film).
  • Halloween (2007) by Rob Zombie: Ismael knows Michael is a psychopath but he wants to believe he’s changed and he’ll take their friendship in consideration and not murder him.

4.  Joins the Father: She understands the evidence, she doesn’t care, she turns off her moral judgements and just embraces her father.

  • Who: few violent Fundamental Christians, Inquisitionists
  • Kick Ass (2010): Hit Girl finds out his dad was never a cop, she doesn’t care and keeps her original vision of him.
  • Green Hornet (2011): Britt finds out his dad wasn’t always the ethical man he thought him to be, he understands but strives to become what he symbolized and keeps his original vision of him.

5. Claims Misidentity: She may decide that the stories are about a completely different man and that all the witnesses are making an identity mistake: there is an evil man, but it is not her father

6. Refutes the Evidence: The daughter discredits the accounts of the witnesses or realizes their blinding biases and goes with her own personal experiences with her father.

  • Who: Many liberal Christians
  • Oldboy (2003): Dae-su finds out the woman he’s been sleeping with is actually his long-lost daughter, he goes to a hypnotist to make him forget that fact so he can keep being with her.
  • The Forgotten (2004): Telly ignores people telling her she never had a child and keeps her instinct until she finds out she did.

7. Uses the Father: She recognizes that her father is a horrible person, but she still needs someone to pay her impending college tuition, and so stay on his good side.

  • Who: Heaven-Seeking Christians: A Christian who thinks God maybe horribly cruel to nonbelievers, but I wants herself and her loved ones to go to heaven.
  • Breaking Bad (2008-13): Father(Walt) turns drug-dealer, wife (Skyler) first rejects, then helps her husband laundry his illegal money for the sake of the family.

Hopefully I have shown how the original scenario is a good analogy to the profound dilemma Christians experience when or if they carefully read about their God of the Old Testament — Yahweh.  It is a dilemma because the Christians haven’t experienced a cruel god, instead, they have experienced ‘God’ as loving, forgiving and supportive.  None of my Christian friends or acquaintances have experienced their God to be anything like the horrible Jewish Iron-Age-tribal-god Yahweh who would drown all their loved ones (Gen 8), or have a pregnant woman’s abdomen slashed open just because she didn’t believe in him (Hosea 13:16).  So after reading all the Old Testament atrocities  Christians, just like the girl in our real life story above, must reconcile these two different fathers: a good one and an apparently bad one.  The 8 options above are some of the common solutions.

Question for readers:

  1. Can you think of other solutions with Christian parallels?
  2. If you are/were a Christian, which technique did/do you use?
  3. Any movie buffs out there who can you supply more movie titles that examplify  any of the solutions I list above?



Filed under Philosophy & Religion

34 responses to “God’s Secret Life & Movies

  1. exrelayman

    Nothing comes to mind about questions 1 and 3.

    As for 2, two basic considerations governed: 1) although I cannot see the why, God is so infinitely greater and wiser than me that I just trust that all will be revealed in the life to come (basically, who am I to judge God?), and 2) for heaven’s sake! (literally), I must not allow this to become a ‘stumbling block’ and steal from me my salvation.

    Of course, later I became aware that the proper preliminary to accepting the truth of the Bible was to learn more about its construction, nature, and relationship to other antecedent and surrounding belief cultures. This was a fearful process in light of factor 2) above.

  2. Whenever I’ve mentioned the atrocities and Draconian laws prescribed in the Old Testament (anyone still stone their disobedient children to death? 😉 ) a number of Christians have told me that Jesus brought a new covenant with God, one that is kinder, more loving and forgiving. They regard the Old Testament as prehistory of sorts, or something only Jews and more “backwards” followers believe in anymore. (And yes, they’re a bit blind to the anti-Semitism in those remarks.) I’ve also compared it to the belief among some dysfunctional families that “Dad used to drink and beat us and leave us with no money to buy food or clothing, but he doesn’t drink anymore, so we forgive him.” I suppose we are all entitled to deal with our family histories as we see fit: it’s just that some ways are healthier than others, and in particular for one’s own children, who are often the heirs to dysfunctional behavior and attitudes.

  3. @ exrelayman :
    I’m sorry, I forgot: What age did you deconvert.
    As you mentioned, you converted (for whatever reason — what was yours?) and then you learn of all the other stuff you are suppose to agree to — including ridiculous Bibical inerrancy. That was the subject of my previous post. Just think, if you’d been in a liberal church, you might not have been forced intellectually to jump the whole ship.

    @ Hangaku Gozen :
    Yes, that “new covenant” theology is the “dispensationalism” I linked to. But many conservatives don’t believe Yahweh has changed — they believe, for instance that he still destroys with hurricanes and earthquakes because of homosexuals and abortion.

  4. hello Sabio, perhaps I’m misinterpreting, but this comes across as a rather subtle and intellectual way of mocking Christian beliefs. Unfortunately it then gives permission for others to expand on the topic in a less subtle way.

    (In your analogy – does the girl conclude that her father doesn’t exist?)

  5. @ Minimalist,
    Well, if there is indeed a god, then explaining with #2 “It is a mystery. God has his reasons, or #3 “God has changed his ways or even #5 Marcion’s solution would not be put downs. #1 and #5 are indeed not looked up well in this post. # 2,3 and 5 are stating that Christians then have TWO gods — the ones of their experience and the one they read about. That is not necessarily said mocking — it is a fact that I feel is important for them to understand.

    I have never seen a movie where a girl decides her father never existed. And this post isn’t even exploring that issue — no hinting at it. For I think believers truly have subjective experiences which they label “God” — they thing it is caused by an objective outer entity, and I don’t but I don’t argue against the inner experience of God. I hope that clarifies my position.

    Thanx for visiting.

  6. If the girl found that there was no evidence of the supposed crimes and no record of them outside of the stories she’s been told, she might conclude that they had never happened and were made up about her father in the first place.

  7. andyman409

    The only movies I can think of with these themes are ones in which the child rejects the parent. “There will be blood” and “the golden compass” come to mind.

  8. @ David Coulter
    Indeed, that is a good one. I’m not sure what the Christian theological equivalent would be. Daughter reads all the things in the Old Testament, then goes back in time and realizes they were all made-up?
    Or daughter discredits the writings of the Old Testament authors (and maybe NT authors) and stops believing any Bible versions of God. But since she has her own inner experiences,she just goes with her own experiences — an extremely liberal Christian. Thanx, I will add that. Is that what you were implying?

  9. TWF

    I think I can understand what Minimalist was saying, because you’re post is coming from the assumption that the “sins of the father” were indeed wicked and unnecessary, so this is perhaps similar to asking someone who loves their father “what mental gymnastics do you have to use to keep loving him, since he is obviously a bastard?” 😉 While I would agree with that OT assessment, not many Christians I know have reached that point. That may be more obvious in my answers…

    1 & 2) When I was Christian and before studying the Bible for myself, the OT stories were always presented in a way in which God’s wrath seemed a little more justified, in almost a military-jingoist manner. The divinely-smitten were demonized, and warranted destruction. Wrath was doled out with the purpose to make the world a better place. In my less mature understanding of reality and the stories told to us, this made a lot of sense. In fact, it seemed like you would want a god to do such things to keep the “bad guys” from getting the upper hand.

    3) I’m struggling to think of particular movies, but the themes you mention seem far to familiar for them not to have been caught on film. But regarding my answer, many of the old military flicks where the enemy is portrayed as less than human or purely evil carries the same meta-theme.

    (My trip was delayed…)

  10. @ andyman409
    Thanx for your example of the “Golden Compass” where the protagonist finds that her mother is one of the main villians. But like Luke, in Star Wars, she simply rejects the parent as evil and so does not fall into any of our 6 examples above. But I added these examples to the post — so thanks.

    I don’t see how HW, in “There Will Be Blood” had to deal with cognitive dissonance, he was only told who his true father was.

    Of course there are many films where the spouse finds out about their loved one’s past (or present) that causes cognitive dissonance, but I am looking for Children stories.

  11. exrelayman

    I am turning 70 this month. Remembering the exact process of deconversion is obscured a bit by time, but I do know I was in my 20’s and leading a Sunday school class at the time. The main factors as I recall today seem to have been my fundamentalist church’s derision of evolution and the age of the earth, as opposed to the pronouncements of real scientists, and issues with scripture itself. As to the latter, Jesus could not be at a wedding in Canae and be tempted in the wilderness at the same time, for one thing. Another thing salient at the time was his cry about being forsaken by god at the crucifixion. Jesus saying he would give the evil and adulterous generation only one sign, but then failing to do even this when he appeared post resurrection only to believers was another. There are more, but I am keeping this to a length reasonable for a blog comment. Perhaps if I was not a diligent investigator for the sake of my class, I would still be under the spell of Christianity.

  12. How about an Oedipus twist? Hmmm… There is that multiple “Mary” thing going on in the Jesus myth…

  13. As a Liberal Christian, I’d say that there is another option: accept that your father is a human being, and like other human beings who are a complex mass of contradictions, managed to be both a caring father and a criminal. The analogy would be to recognizing that one’s own religious tradition, in this case Christianity, has genuinely done much good and much evil, flawed human system that it is, but one that has nevertheless motivated people to see beyond conflict and selfishness and live truly amazing lives of compassion on occasion.

  14. CRL

    Great pick of age and gender!

    I would say a lot of people would do all of the above—”He probably didn’t do it, but if he did, he had a good reason, and, anyway, that was a long time ago and he changed.” My church and Catholic elementary school basically did the same thing, saying that the Bible was meant to be taken metaphorically and was written by humans who, while “inspired by God”, were still human. If the metaphors could not be interpreted in any way which did not make is sound like God was horrible and inspired them to write horrible things, God cannot be judged by human reason, and it was a different time.

    She could also conclude, that, while her father is a horrible person, she still needs someone to pay her impending college tuition, and should stay on his good side. A Christian would conclude that, while God is a monster, they must worship that monster if they want to stay out of Hell.

  15. Two films each, here we go (watch out for spoilers):
    1. The Godfather: Kay asks Michael (her husband) if he killed Carlo, Michael denies it, Kay is satisfied with the answer despite all the evidence to the contrary.
    Inception: When Mal stops dreaming she just ignores the fact that she’s in real life and acts as if she was still in a dream.

    2. Hot Fuzz: Sgt. Butterman finds out his father is a serial killer, he tries to justify him.
    Let The Right One In: Oskar realizes Eli is a vampire but accepts that she needs to kill in order to live.

    3. Old School: Marissa knows her husband is a drunk but pretends he has changed (for the majority of the film).
    Rob Zombie’s Halloween: Ismael knows Michael is a psychopath but he wants to believe he’s changed and he’ll take their friendship in consideration and not murder him.

    4.Kick Ass: Hit Girl finds out his dad was never a cop, she doesn’t care and keeps her original vision of him.
    Green Hornet: Britt finds out his dad wasn’t always the ethical man he thought him to be, he understands but strives to become what he symbolized and keeps his original vision of him.

    5.Star Wars V: The Empire Strikes Back – Luke finds out his father is his enemy, he denies it at all costs.
    Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978): Elizabeth denies her husband has changed and claims he must’ve been abducted and replaced.

    6.Oldboy: Dae-su finds out the woman he’s been sleeping with is actually his long-lost daughter, he goes to a hypnotist to make him forget that fact so he can keep being with her.
    The Forgotten: Telly ignores people telling her she never had a child and keeps her instinct until she finds out she did.

  16. @ RafaDDM:
    Fantastic — thank you much. I added them !!
    BTW, the link on your name does not work. Is this your site: http://www.diademuertos.com/

  17. @ CRL:
    Yeah, I actually spent time thinking about what age and gender to pick. Thanks.
    You make a fantastic point. Our minds are complex and many different “reasons” operate simultaneously — even contrary reasons.
    I love your last example and have seen it. I want to add it as #7. What should I call it: The Hell-fearing Christians, Opportunistic Christians, Pragmatic Christians ….? Hmmmmmmm. Can you help me a little more with a title, a brief description and a movie example? Check out how I have changed things.

  18. @ James McGrath :
    Thanx for playing along. Can you imagine a movie or two that matches your example? I can’t think of how to add yours — I probably don’t really get it. In terms of your type of Christianity (since that seems to be what we are talking of), is it: I think there is a god, but the OT and NT stories are just stories by people in my tradition fumbling with the transcendent.

    If so, can you remember reading the OT when you still thought it was suppose to be a true story and what process you went through to revamp it so you could still participate within your tradition? I can’t see how to put this in a response from the girl in the scenario that isn’t already listed.

  19. @ TWF:
    Yes, I think you are right. My assumption is that the Yahweh stories are like many other ancient destroy-thy-enemies stories and full of justified genocide. But I think my solutions allow people to disagree. But my bias is indeed clear. Your explanation has helped me change the wording of #2. If you can remember any of those military movies, let me know! 🙂

    @ exrelayman:
    Thanx for the history — interesting. Happy coming birthday !!

  20. The problem with your Star Wars example is in Return of the Jedi, Luke’s dad, the erstwhile Darth Vader, turns out to be a good bloke after all.
    If [*del] Christians realise this your movie analogy might get blown out the water.
    Just a thought….

    *deleted: for comment policy violation of civility

  21. Sabio, it is a fair point that the view I outlined might not make a good movie. It could, however, be the final scene in a movie in which the main character passes through all the other options you mentioned on her way there… 🙂

  22. CRL

    I like “pragmatic Christians” or “selfish Christians.” I can’t think of any movie analogies, though.

  23. [Sabio, if I posted this before, please excuse me: I had been trying to post it via my mobile phone, but it was acting funny.]

    I think you omitted one “solution”, the one I was taught, i.e., the one embraced by Orthodox Christianity. That is, all the crimes you mention are not real but allegorical. They mean something else which is so deep that it becomes a “mystery”. They are metaphors for things we can not know so easily, but things we can, perhaps, approach through faith, meditation, repentance, prayer, discussion with the wise ones of the church, monasticism, etc.

    When I was young, I had wanted to get a hold of the old testament and read it. Well, it was virtually impossible in Greece. Despite years of religious indoctrination, only the new testament was made available freely. The old one was something of a mystery. Something we only knew about indirectly, through textbooks (we had to memorize the names of the major and minor prophets, the titles of the OT books, and other such trivia). I think this is the situation in Orthodox Christianity. Simply, Orthodox Christianity doesn’t care much about three old testament. In my opinion, the majority of Orthodox Christians have never opened the old testament at all. It is there, in the background, but neither easily accessible not a suggested/required reading.

    (Don’t take that as an authoritative statement. I’m only talking from my own experience.)

  24. @ CRL :
    Thanks, I used your suggestion and added number 7. I realized that I am watching a series right now that contains that solution.

    @ James McGrath :
    Indeed, as CRL states, someone could go through several of these levels. And as arkenaten illustrates, this happened in Star Wars — and other films.

    Your final position would be fun to capture with a film example. As far as I understand you, part of your solution belongs to the new #7 “Uses the Father”: where you realized that though you have had some personal mystical experiences, the Bible — both OT and NT is just a mix of either people wrestling with theirs and a bunch of politics and manipulative common-place human experiences. But, you figure it is best to have SOME tradition to operate out of, so you stay aligned with the one you were born into for both psychological and social reasons even if you don’t thing Jesus is the only Way. Is that fairly accurate?

    @ Arkenaten,
    Thanx! You are right about the complexity of Star Wars — CRL tells us to watch for that too. I used your insight to touch up that solution. See if you think it did the trick.
    [I had to touch up your unnecessary snarkiness — see comment policies. Pls watch house rules. Thanx. And no dialogue about house rules here. You may e-mail me if you wish. See “Contact”.]

    @ Takis ,
    Wow, that is fascinating! Thanx for sharing. I think # 6 “Refutes the Evidence” works in that the evidence as it stands — real occurrence — are denied and instead, they are merely allegorical. But you are right, it is not clear in this story. And I think James McGrath (a very liberal, progressive Christian scholar) is hinting at something like that too. So I will try to think of how to improve all this.

    But, can you think of any movie examples that comes close to showing a similar solution? That would be fun.

  25. Sorry, I can’t think of a movie right now. I’ll try!
    Indeed, the OT was something of a taboo. Even though we were tortured with religious lessons (mandatory for 9 years), we were not, really, taught the bad parts of the OT, neither did we have easy access to it. And when I say “teaching”, I mean stupid vocational teaching. For example, at the age of 16 or so, we had to memorize all liturgical aspects of the Orthodox Christianity: the names of all parts of a church, the names of the clothes a priest wears on all possible occasions, and dozens of stupid, boring, details. And then we had to pass an exam at the end of the year. My favorite part of the OT is the passage in the Deuteronomy saying something like: if you try to conquer a land, first offer them peace; if they accept, then take everybody as a slave and make them work for you; if they don’t accept (the peace treaty) then start war. What a perfect peace treaty, isn’t it? I don’t know what a mainstream Orthodox Christian would answer. I believe that most of them simply ignore this passage. And if they did know it (say a theologian), they would, most likely, try to tell me that all that is a secret code for something else. Occam’s razor never works in religion. The most convoluted explanation is the one given, as long as the explanation leads to a convenient answer.

  26. TWF

    Great insight! That is fascinating about Greece! Thanks for sharing.

    I think that the verses you are thinking about are Deuteronomy 20:10-15:

    When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.” NIV

  27. TWF: Thanks for the verses. As Michael Fridman reminded me lately, morality is so relative and so time- and place-dependent. These verses, apparently, were considered as a very reasonable peace treaty for the time back then. The ethical message of Deuteronomy was: if you are to attack, well, offer them the “peace treaty” before killing them. From our point of view, what an offer indeed!

    As for the insight about Greece, to me, and many other Greeks, this is nothing but the norm of things. I have been living outside Greece for long time (almost 2 decades in the US, but I’m now in Sweden), so all that is a thing of the past. But the torture of the religious classes has left a scar…

  28. What a great post. Love the examples with contemporary film – I also love how you thank the readers because I know you certainly aren’t watching that much television. 🙂

    Your point #4 – “joins the father” – is huge to me. Christians almost fetishize their own wickedness sometimes. In fact, in a religious context I see “joining the father” as inverting the meaning of right and wrong itself, perhaps because a person’s sins vindicate Jesus’ death for the sake of their subsequent atonement from them.

    Two other psychological mechanisms I can imagine:

    (1) Personal Innocence in a Crowd
    The first one doesn’t really lend itself to the father analogy, which is a 1:1 case, but builds on something very striking that you observe in this post: not only are there there tons of different Christians, and by the examples you give, tons of different Christianities! I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve been told by Christians during a conversation “he/she/they were not following the True way of Christ” when an example comes up of Christian history not meshing with 21st century common ethical sensibilities. Not to mention that “Methodists aren’t even Christian” (a Catholic once told me this…in fact, aren’t all non-Catholics not Christian according to Catholics?) So there is a huge opportunity for individuals to play fast and loose with the label “Christian”, given the historical length and breadth of the term. Again, this is slightly off-topic because that flexibility doesn’t exist in a parent/child relationship.

    (2) Historical Context Justifying Past Wrongs
    As someone who tends to stereotype anything before 1950 as primitive, it is very easy for me to see the distant past as sort of….well, not fictional exactly, but not as real as contemporary reality.
    Though not Christian, when I read of Abraham and Isaac, I am bothered in principle but on a psychological level I also sort of shrug it off as “…well, didn’t people do stuff like that back then? They don’t have modern ethics, so it’s apples and oranges. But it’s nice to read he didn’t kill the kid….okay, what am I having for dinner now?” Maybe since I am not a Christian it is easy for me to take it so lightly, but I suspect that many Christians with their “Good News Bible” tendencies also hold the past to a different standard as well.

  29. @Sabio, I think that there is only so far that one can go down the road of denying a parent. That parent’s influence is there, and often simply trying to live as though the parent had never existed fails to do justice to that. That’s one reason why – relating this to the analogy – I find people who toy with calling themselves “Christian atheists” – acknowledging the influence of that tradition even while rejecting its theism – more interesting and challenging to interact with than those who simply say “I have nothing to do with that tradition, there is nothing good in it.”

  30. @ Brandon,
    Good points. Thanx

    @ James McGrath ,
    I listened to an interesting NPR show yesterday talking about kids of abusive Dads. It said that even if the Dad was once abusive, if safe now, kids did better with that Dad than no Dad. Wow.

    But religion is not similar enough to a biological father to make your analogy work for me.

    I was raised Christian, embraced Christianity as an adult, but later had no need for theism.

    But I have enjoyed so many cultures in my life, I don’t feel “Christian” influence enough per se to be the least enticed to call myself a “Christian atheist” — hell, “Buddhist Atheist” has been tempting. But the more I go on, the less I like calling myself anything.

    As you find “Christian Atheists” difficult, I have challenges with people who clearly don’t believe anything that the vast majority of Christians believe and yet still identify with being Christians. Smile.

    Well, I actually get it, but I am amazed they get away with it. I did it for a while but my friends and acquaintences called me on it and I realized I could drop out of the game and still have a great life — so I did.

  31. @Sabio, I was not saying that an abusive dad is better than no dad. I was saying that when one had a father who, in your original analogy, could be both wonderful and monstrous at times (which I think you would accept is analogous to the historical reality of Christianity and indeed most any religion), then one would do better to take ownership of that legacy, even if one leaves much of it behind, rather than try to simply pretend that the negative experiences never happened. Does that make sense?

  32. @ James McGrath,

    Well, I see two situations:

    (A) God in the OT is real, God in the NT is real.

    In this scenario it is just like the abusive father story

    (B) God of OT is just a story, God of NT is closer to the real all-loving God but still bound by human limitations.

    Sure, “owning the legacy” by dismissing most of it may be one path, but it is confusing to me. As I described. I still can’t think of a movie analogy — perhaps because there is no REAL father story like this that makes any sense, so you can’t make a movie out of that — except maybe anime. 🙂

  33. I wasn’t thinking about it in terms of a deity like that depicted existing – I was thinking more in terms of one’s relationship with the positive and negative aspects of the religious tradition. So maybe that’s why we were coming up with different sorts of movie ideas!

  34. @ James,

    Yes, I absolutely agree. I think you have a personal loving relationship with a tradition. 🙂

    People have that with their countries, their race, their religion, their towns and many more things. Good or bad, they are willing to forgive if it gives them community or identity.

    And in a way, that can be like an abusive father who improved too.

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